New Greenhouse Project

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kGarden
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New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

Every time I see a Newbie asking about a greenhouse the answers always include "Buy a bigger one, you're bound to need it" ...

I bought my two greenhouse nearly 10 years ago, second hand off eBay. I have a "propagating house" 10' x 12' and a "growing house" 10' x 30'.

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I've been very happy with them, never thought I would "need a bigger one" ... until now!!

... I have a couple of issues:

Overwintering stuff is a chore. I tend to have lots of plants in pots, growing on, which although probably hardy do benefit from not getting sopping wet being stood outside, and then their rootball freezes solid. So I squeeze them into whatever covered space I can find, and watering them in the early Spring is haphazard. It would be SO much easier just to stand pots on beds in the vegetable plot that have finished cropping in, say, October ready for the winter. I also have some tender things, a large Orangery that I can store the bigger things in, but those that are marginal I'll prefer to just "chuck" in the greenhouse.

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Box Overwintering

Then there are crops that just need some season-extension, in addition to things that need more heat like the Tomatoes, Cucumbers, Melons, Peppers and Aubergines which I grow in my Cropping House. I already use part of the cropping house to grow Sweetcorn and Dwarf French Beans for an early crop, and Chard and Lambs Lettuce for overwintering, but it would be nice to plant Potatoes and Beans early and not have to worry about a late frost. I used to plant "early-ish" and be out at night with a torch covering them up with fleece ... but I grew tired of that, so now I plant a few early Potatoes in containers but the rest are planted out late enough to be sure that they will not be above ground until frosts have finished. So I miss out on decent early crops.

Lastly, there is my heavy, clay, soil which is impossible to get onto early in the season, particularly in a wet season like this (and last year too).

So I have been thinking for some time that I should perhaps get a multi-span polytunnel. But I don't really want to "force" my Summer crops, just to keep the winter rain off them, and any late frosts and thus I need really good ventilation in the Summer - I might want to keep some heat in at night, but try to limit heat-gain during the day - and I figure that would be hard with a polytunnel.

So I decided to cover the whole vegetable plot in glass :shock:

Commercial Greenhouses go for next to nothing on eBay, because of the effort to take them down, and put them back up. But I reckon it represents a really cost effective purchase. So I have bought a couple (wasn't sure one would be big enough!) which will cover my whole vegetable patch which is around 600 sq.m. that included a couple of round corrugated / lined rain water tanks.

Hope this is going to prove to be a good idea! swapping outdoor growing for protected growing, as I will have to do 100% of the irrigation and no doubt have more issues combating bugs. I figure that I will solve the irrigation with leaky hose as I already use that on at least half my vegetable crops, so ramping that up to 100% won't be hard, and I will use my stored rainwater for irrigation (I already have the whole garden plumbed with 32mm MDPE for irrigation).

But I'm starting to get cold feet!

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Here's my sums:

I reckon it will take two people 2 weeks to take down a 60' x 40' glasshouse. The ones I have bought are substantial - made by the, sadly now defunct, Robinsons of Winchester - not the lightest tin structures that can possibly be made and which I see been erected on the Fens (known as Venlo?). They have full end-to-end ridge ventilation which can be opened almost to the vertical; Glazing bars screwed on (stainless screws), all glass is 2' square. Very few different types of parts - its all very modular. Needs some tools, which I already had most of, and the hire of some things - like a cherry picker / Genie lift which makes getting the roof down easy. Then the hire of a flatbed to get the bigger bits back, and the cost of either the commute petrol, or a B&B. So basically I reckon that a couple could take a fortnights holiday and disassemble one and get it back to base. Then put it back up over time / winter, all for the cost of perhaps £ 500 - £ 1,000 hire. I saw one commercial glasshouse, sadly too far away from me, sell for £ 1.51 (which I took to be the second bid on eBay - which is to say that the first person bid 99p and was not prepared to pay a penny more!!). Many of them get no bids at all ... but perhaps no one is as daft as I am? :mrgreen:

If you have any thoughts I would appreciate hearing them, thanks.
Last edited by kGarden on Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
flounder
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by flounder »

My first thought was, WOW! :shock:
Second thought was, a total logistical nightmare, but absolutely and totally worth the effort. You'll have so much scope for what you want to do, extend your veggie growing season, try out new and different varieties of borderline plants....the possibilities are endless.
A couple of years down the line and you'd have wished you'd done it years earlier :roll:
charlie
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by charlie »

Given that my first reaction on seeing "Eden" for the first time - was I want one! I think its a brilliant idea.

My greenhouse constructions have been many and bitty so having everything under one roof is a definite plus.

I have looked for an old post of mine on greenhouse constructions (I am up to 6) but can not find it (may have been on the old forum) Anyway I am presently engaged in extending one of them which as every one predicted is way too small!!

Definitely a Wow for yours. :)
JohnJearrard
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by JohnJearrard »

Super-wow, super envy. If I had some flat ground I would be tempted. I think you have some work ahead of you!
kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

Thanks chaps :)
JohnJearrard wrote: I think you have some work ahead of you!
I'm hoping (apart from the concrete footings for the various uprights) it will take the same time to put up as it did to take down. Perhaps a bit less as I will have the benefit of having seen the various bits and how they connected, but basically its just grab-a-bit and bolt-it-on then rinse-and-repeat!

I'm very impressed with the Robinson, its incredibly modular and must have been very easy for them to construct on site, thus both confused and dismayed that the company doesn't still exist; there is definitely a lot of metal in their fame, which gives me some comfort, and maybe that made them uneconomical.

My main worry is making sure the glass will fit! I know with a small greenhouse it is key that the diagonal measurements are identical, because if it isn't square the glass won't go in, but as we take this monster apart some joined pieces, once unbolted, are then moving apart a fair bit (an inch or two even) and I'm wondering whether they were "persuaded" together using some measure that kept it square. There are a couple (but only two, on opposite roof ends) of X-braces, which presumably were to ensure that the first glazing bars were square, and maybe it all just kept square from that point.

Image

The uprights in the ground are definitely not perfectly aligned - they are aligned along-the-row, but not from one row to the next; the A-frames on the uprights separately attach to the bars that support the glazing-bars, so that design allows the A-frames to be out-of-skew a fair bit, and then just bolt to the glazing bar supports where they touch. (Its that type of thing that impresses me about the design, but maybe all commercial greenhouses are designed the same way, I've never looked at one up-close before :) )

Speaking to the site owner he said the installers made post-holes for the uprights, poured concrete up to a foot or so below ground level, got that dead-level (easier now, with laser-levels, than it was 25 years ago!!) and then stood the uprights on the concrete and built the frame. The uprights were free to move around on their concrete pads and once the thing was square they chucked some more concrete in the hole to keep the upright still.
LONGK
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by LONGK »

Good on yer! I'll be watching this with interest.

A few points spring to mind;
1] Do not assume that the bolts will undo. With this in mind take a grinder, some really good drill bits and a trade pack of WD40 or similar.
2] Transporting this amount of glass in sensible quantities will require the correct vehicle (strapping it down on a flat bed is a non-starter as the chassis flexes) and some ingenuity/thought regarding packing materials (not tomention a lot of material).
3] Planning permission?
charlie
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by charlie »

My main worry is making sure the glass will fit! I know with a small greenhouse it is key that the diagonal measurements are identical, because if it isn't square the glass won't go in, but as we take this monster apart some joined pieces, once unbolted, are then moving apart a fair bit (an inch or two even) and I'm wondering whether they were "persuaded" together using some measure that kept it square. There are a couple (but only two, on opposite roof ends) of X-braces, which presumably were to ensure that the first glazing bars were square, and maybe it all just kept square from that point.
I have always made my self some lightweight plywood panes of the same size as the glass to use as I went along, as it is a pain to find you are slightly out.

The post hole solution sounds right.

I used to see the Robinsons man at various shows, so when I wanted to replace a 32 X 18 tunnel with a greenhouse they were the obvious choice but I could have bought a small cottage for the same as the quote new.
kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

charlie wrote:I have always made my self some lightweight plywood panes of the same size as the glass to use as I went along, as it is a pain to find you are slightly out.
That's a cracking idea Charlie, thanks.
I used to see the Robinsons man at various shows, so when I wanted to replace a 32 X 18 tunnel with a greenhouse they were the obvious choice but I could have bought a small cottage for the same as the quote new.
The Robinson I am dismantling cost £28K when it was erected some 20 years ago ... I'm guessing it would be around 4-man-weeks to build - mind you, need to translate that labour into pay-rates 20 years back too. Seems like a lot to me ... new ... with or without the labour!

I asked why there was not more interest in buying second hand ones, and the replies I got were "Grants available for new builds" ... presumable not for domestic installation thought?!!!
kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

Meant to ask your opinion / advice on this pls:

There is a motorised "winder" available for the roof vents. At present they are chain-pull (the electric winder was on a different structure, on the same site, which is no longer needed for original purpose).

My first thought was to stick to manual on the basis of "less to go wrong". I don't have any auto-opening-vents at present, which allows me to leave them open on summer nights to allow air circulation even if temperature is warm, but below auto-vent to close temperature, and to leave them closed to force the temperature to rise (e.g. mornings in early Spring / mid afternoon in Autumn)

But it does mean that go-away-for-weekend is not straightforward, nor is the mad panic on hot summer mornings when I do the "OMJ, haven't opened the greenhouse yet" panic!!

I believe the Motorised control unit allows both OPEN and CLOSED as well as Thermostatic.

a) would I be nuts NOT to automate the vents?

b) What sort of (realistic) value would you put on the 2nd hand motor unit and electronic control box?

Thanks :)
charlie
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by charlie »

I either leave vents open or have automatic openers on them, trying to rely on remembering has proved more expensive than the hydraulic openers here!

I would have thought given the amount it must be costing to get the greenhouse taken down and re erected at yours (not to mention the ground work) the openers would be a relatively small additional cost for the benefit?
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