New Greenhouse Project

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kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

charlie wrote:I would have thought given the amount it must be costing to get the greenhouse taken down and re erected at yours (not to mention the ground work) the openers would be a relatively small additional cost for the benefit?
Yes, very true. I'm in the "Added complexity means one more thing to go wrong" camp ... but I suppose there is nothing to stop me disconnecting it and reverting to chain-loop-pulling if it does go wrong, so might as well install it and have the benefit of the automation.

Its got to be worth £100 to me not to have to rely on other people when we go away for the weekend or, as you SO rightly say Charlie "Not having to rely on myself" !! when I am at home! but I don't know if that is a derisory offer?
kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

Progress report (yesterday). Should finish getting it down tomorrow ...

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charlie
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by charlie »

Impressive progress, I am surprised you had the energy left to post!
JohnJearrard
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by JohnJearrard »

That is amazing - I thought you would be at it for weeks!
kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

Its taken the two of us about 12 working days. We have had to "commute" so not started each morning until nearly 9am, and left by 4pm, so if we had stayed nearby I figure we would have got another couple of hours in each day and shortened the job so could have saved a couple of days perhaps.

In case anyone who wants to do something similar stumbles over this thread I have some suggestions:

A decent lifter. We used something called a Niftylift. Its electric (battery charges overnight) and can be manoeuvred from either controls at ground level or from the platform. Made it easy to get a pane of glass (or glazing bar etc.) out of the roof, then shuffle along to the next one. I came across this by chance, I was expecting to hire a Genie Lift, but they are far more capable than we needed and twice the price to hire. Niftylift worked out at about £ 200 per week.

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Ratchet Ringspanners. Lots of the 10mm aluminium nuts are within "channel" where there is only a tiny amount of "turn" space available. An ordinary spanner would take forever, but the ratchet ones you can wiggle backwards-and-forwards furiously with only the tinniest amount of play. Many aluminium nuts rung off anyway, but the nuts run free for the first part of their travel, then jam-up on the corroded threads.

The ones I have are Britool Expert. I decided I needed some quality ones that wouldn't fray! I'm a little bit in two minds about the combinations-sizes approach, it definitely works just fine but I have to check which side I am using rather often! (Basically each ring has difference sizes on each side, so each spanner fits 4 different size nuts, which is jolly handy of course, although the sizes are not sequential! Just 3 spanners gets you #1 = 8, 10 & 12, 13; #2 = 9, 11 & 14, 15; #3 = 16, 17 & 18, 19. As it happens 99% of the bolts were 10mm and 13mm, so I just had one spanner in my back pocket :)

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Cheapest I found was at FFX £ 45 - supposedly a £ 40 discount, but I'm always sceptical of anything like that, presumably no-one pays full price!
Britool Expert E111115B Quadbox Spanner Set of 3 in Toolroll

I also have 18V rechargeable battery drill / screwdriver, impact driver / screwdriver, impact wrench tools (3 separate ones). All three were useful although I find the impact driver the least used (given that I also have an impact wrench which I find just amazing when undoing nuts / bolts no matter how stubborn they are). The impact driver can be a bit violent for undoing screws and I find the drill / screwdriver better for that (variable toque setting and the trigger provides some control too). I have a "torsion bit holder" which supposedly absorbs some of the initial torque and prevents the screwdriver bit ripping the guts out of the head of the screw! but I'm in two minds about that too. It definitely works, and works well, but it lengthens the business end, and is a bit wobbly, so trying to engage it on a screw head, one handed, at arms length reach!! is difficult. When a second hand is available to align the bit then it works well. (Supposedly it prolongs the life of the screw driver bit too, which I can believe, but I wonder if I've been "had" by marketing hype?!! In the last couple of weeks we've undone buckets of screws and if I had had to buy an extra bit, or two, it wouldn't have made any difference overall ...)

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Makita B-28531 Ultra-Mag Torsion Magnetic Bit Holder

Personally I don't use the Impact Driver to remove nuts. I do have sockets with hex-ends, which will fit the Driver, but when a nut gets stuck in the socket (often) you can't poke anything in to dislodge it, whereas with an open socket (as I use on the Impact Wrench) it is easy to take the socket off and give it a poke - but I find the nuts in the impact wrench sockets generally fall out when I just knock the end of the socket on something nearby.

Transport of everything back-to-base needs some consideration. We haven't taken the A-frames to bits, which will save a bit of time on re-assembly. They are 21' 6" long (and 3' 3" "high") so it needs quite a big vehicle. Might be worth hiring the longest stretched van for the day, to get all the loose bits back. I'm brining all of those bits back on a flatbed, but the "Extra Long Wheel Base Van" from Thrifty is £ 85 for the day and has a 4.3M cargo bay 1.9M high (so perhaps 5.25M / 17' "sloping) which I think would get pretty much everything except ridge bars - the gutters would be a bit borderline. Tipper truck, with H-frame so that they can be loaded up-and-over the cab, would work too and is probably cheaper than a stretch van, but won't take the 20' cross bars [used on the A-frames]. Problem with a tipper truck is how you strap down the aluminium if it is sloping up-over the cab as it obviously has a lot more "bend" then steel etc.

The glass we have put in pallet boxes, and put a strap around them for good measure. Luckily there is a forklift on site; I had a quote for £ 600 for the day from a haulage company that would transport everything for me. Their vehicle would have a grab to load / unload pallets ... but I figure that is a much higher cost than my local man with a flatbed :) (I doubt selfdrive would do as I don't think an ordinary licence would get a long enough flatbed, but I might be wrong on that. A Scaffolder's flatbed would be ideal)

Good gloves.

Father Christmas treated myself, and Mrs K, to some Gold Leaf leather gardening gloves. My hands get cold in double quick time, so I have the Winter Touch ones. My hands have stayed warm (Thinsulate lining) so they definitely work for me. I don't have a solution for really wet days. They got soaking wet on one very rainy day, luckily a Friday, and I stuffed them with newspaper and wrapped them too, to dry them out "slowly-ish" which took most of the weekend. They didn't go completely stiff, but it took them a couple of days to loosen up again. My only solution would be to have 4 pairs and only use them for a couple of hours each on wet days, but that's a bit extravagant! They have stood up really well to a fortnight's continuously handling of glass, metal and general working - lots of pulling them on & off to use fingers to remove a nut, etc. They are reputed to last well (in return for their higher price) and with a bit of looking after I can imagine that the adage "Best quality is the cheapest" will prove to be true.

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http://www.goldleaf-gloves.com/wintertouch.htm

Mrs K has some Soft Touch gloves. They fit really tightly (by design) and are good for fiddly work (personally I never wear gloves when gardening except when handling things that make my hands dry out, like bricks and paving slabs, glass and thorns).

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http://www.goldleaf-gloves.com/softtouch.htm

They don't look it in this photo, but the leather does wrap around the finger tips "well" - more so on the Thumb and Index finger, which is what [Mrs K tells me!] is needed for weeding. The backs let the hands breath.

Santa Clause also bought Mrs K a pair of Tough Touch gloves to stop nettles etc. stinging her wrists

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http://www.goldleaf-gloves.com/toughtouch.htm

Personally I use the cheapest Deer Skin welding gauntlets that I can find. It is rare for anything to pierce them and they are a lot cheaper than the Goldleaf Gloves. I also have some Welders Sleeves (suede-type leather tubes, with elasticated ends,to protect all the way up your arms) when working with brambles / tall nettles.
kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

Loaded for transportation back to base:

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Trailer is 30' (can only just make out, but the two pallets of glass are at the front of the trailer)
charlie
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by charlie »

That must be some weight of glass, it weighs a ton just for a small greenhouse.

Are you going to be renewing seals and so on?
kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

charlie wrote:That must be some weight of glass, it weighs a ton just for a small greenhouse.
There are two "euro" (I think that's what the size is called) pallets (about 3' x 3' 9" I think). I reckon they would be a bit over a tonne each. I'd already bought back some of the glass journey-by-journey in the back of my people-carrier as we figured we wouldn't get 3 pallets on the trailer, so about 80-sheets per trip and then the third pallet came home empty (not on final trailer). I did a rough calc, at the start, that there would be about 1,000 panes. When I have a mo. I'll weight a decent number of panes to give an average weight, and count the number of panes-per-pallet - might help anyone wanting to do something similar in future to calculate how much capacity and "umph" they need to haul the glass.
Are you going to be renewing seals and so on?
Pleased to say that the seals are in really good shape. Its a quality greenhouse, which is why I bid on this one - I'm sure I could have got a minimal-tin, minimal-everything one for 99p!! but I figured it would then cost me a fortune to re-erect as I had my doubts that minimal-tin would re-construct easily and you are right, I expect a cheap-model would need new seals etc.

Can I easily come by new seals? I did try when I got my Eden ones, second had, 10 years ago and couldn't find anything suitable anywhere. I wound up using self-adhesive foam (the stuff used for window draught insulation - I went for Brown instead of White assuming the UV protection might be better). That has performed just fine, to date.

I think my main issue will be re-erecting over the top of my raised beds as it won't be possible to drive the Cherry Picker / Lifter "just anywhere", but if it will straddle the 4' raised beds I'll be fine - perhaps a bit of extra hassle having to motor to the end of each bed in order to shuffle along to the next one, but its telescopic-arm has plenty of "reach", so should be able to glaze a 20' span by only driving up the centre-line and swinging the platform left-and-right.
kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

@LongK

Keith: Don't know if your plans for a nursery are progressing? but might be worth you considering some Glass (assuming your eventual site would benefit from it). Biggest issue is haulage, so if you found something suitable near to your site that, for me, would be the overriding consideration.

I saw someone from Cornwall buy a large glasshouse near Manchester ... and then a few weeks later they bought one much nearer to home and they re-auctioned the original (for £ 600 instead of the £ 0.99 they had paid for it!!). Unless you have access to a 30' flatbed its going to be a relatively expensive job to haul it long distance, and de-construction is going to take a couple of weeks which will mean staying in B&B rather than commuting, and so on.
kGarden
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Re: New Greenhouse Project

Post by kGarden »

Looking forward to re-erecting the first greenhouse, which is sat in a pile-of-bits at present, soon.

In other news:

Started taking down the second greenhouse !!

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I had a look at another, during the summer, that was quite a lot closer, but sadly the owner thought it was worth something - I'm pretty sure they aren't ... the site needs to being redeveloped as a housing estate, with developers paying £ Millions, and just wanting the old glasshouse "got shot" by whomever will cart it away is one thing, 8 man-weeks to take-down and re-erect is enough cost in its own right, without also being expected to pay £N,000s for the privilege.

So, have followed through on the one that I was given first refusal on last December (owners needed to delay the project).

Its not a patch on the Robinson's one we took down in February, but it will certainly do. For anyone considering this the overall rigidity of the structure is important (in terms of take-down and put-back-up). The Robinson's was very elegantly designed, this one has loads of "bits"", in particular the A-Frame. Also, the sides are sloping, rather than vertical, which pretty much necessitates a retaining wall (must cost a fortune and delay the project ...). The sloping sides mean that the outside gutter is minimal, and is actually lower than the internal gutters (6 panes of glass up the roof on the internal slopes. 6 AND A HALF !! on the outside roof sections). So levels etc. all have to be different ... cant' imagine why they designed them that way about ... perhaps someone can enlighten me?

Some spin-off benefits of this one, which influenced the decision:

A pair of rainwater harvesting tanks (corrugated circular thingies) The "small" one is 4.5M diameter and the larger one is 7.5M Diameter. They are about 5' tall. Definitely all the rainwater storage that I need.

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Loads of Mypex in pretty good nick, and the pegs are metals U-hoops which have survived lifting and can be reused. Somewhere in the regions of 500 sq.m. of that.

Irrigation pipes - grey rigid plastic pipes with spray nozzles, solenoid valves and control gear, probably enough for close to 1,000 sq.m. There's also a pump, but sadly it is 3-phase so no use to me.

Mechanised roof vent electric motors for the rack-and-pinions

There are a number of things that make a difference to ease-of-de/re-construction, and spin off benefits, so if anyone else is mad enough to contemplate this?!! please give me a shout, hopefully the geography would be kind and I could come for a viewing with you in the hope of contributing some experience to your decision.
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