Oriental Themed Garden Project

[kGarden]

I hate Japanese gardens, outside of Japan. Apart from the amazing creations at Chelsea (how do you knock up a garden for a few day's display with 100-year-old-moss growing on a wall?!!) I have never seen a good example, perhaps I am spoilt because I spent a couple of years working (on a nursery) in Japan in my late teens. The balance of shape & form is hard to achieve, so I don't want to start ... although Mrs K vacillates a bit and might persuade me.

So I'm thinking "oriental" rather than "Japanese", and my model is the garden at Compton Acres. We had the chance to see it (and the rest of the amazing gardens at Compton Acres) when visiting some friends in Dorset. Loved it.

You come into a banked area from above, so see the whole amphitheatre as you enter which is based around a lake surrounded by planted banks with pines behind. You then walk around the water's edge (paths going "inland" a bit at places, then providing sneak-views / vistas as you re-approach the water). There's a pagoda-type oriental building, and steep steps up a mound on which is an obelisk. But whilst walking round it was clear that the banks, and mound, were artificially made.

More importantly when I got home and checked the dimensions on Google Earth it is much smaller than I though ... and will fit in the last "room" which we have left to develop here.

Here's some photos I took of Compton Acres

Entrance - a glimpse of the water, path goes to the right, round the bushes, and then across the stepping stones (i.e. left-to-right) and then down the left side of the lake



When standing on the stepping stones the whole of the garden is visible


and (from the stepping stones) looking back at where you came in, this is the end of the lake


An example of where the path meanders away from the water's edge


and an example of a glimpse between plants across the lake


then back across the water using the stepping stones at the far end of the lake


view from those stepping stones back down the lake (towards the entrance end)

The climb up to the obelisk:



and the view back down from the top


View from high ground (at the entrance end)

[kGarden]

This is my plot:



A rectangular room (longer going away from camera, narrower on the width) around which we planted a hedge in Spring 2011


This is what it looked like in October 2014 - hedges are well developed, other than that its storing piles of manure ... and logs!

My plan is to put some Gabions (metal mesh cages) around the perimeter hedge, fill them with rubble (which we have left over from a building project) and pile soil (also left over from building project!) against them, to create banks around the edge.

I can then excavate the pond and use the topsoil from that on the banks too.

However, its heavy clay here and the "soil" spoil I have is clay rather than topsoil. Its alkaline too.

I'd like to plant Rhododendrons around the banks (Inkarho rootstock will grow just fine on alkaline), not sure about Azaleas (perhaps they are available on the same rootstock, although don't think I've seen any, but there are dwarf Rhodie varieties available), and also not sure about Acers.

Other major issue is that there are no trees surrounding. On all 4 sides of the hedges are other garden rooms, within my garden, so I can't plant a backdrop of pines. There are some trees planted in the adjacent rooms, but they are small (Mountain Ash, Crab Apple, Eucalyptus etc.) to create modest thin-canopy shade, rather than woodland. If I avoid having high ground to look down on the planting (from which I'd probably be able to see "over" the hedges to adjacent rooms :( ) then perhaps that would work OK.

Site is a bit exposed too ... although hedges are now 3M-ish and trees are growing up (I have some Hybrid Poplars on the perimeter as a speedy windbreak, with more choice varieties between them, the Poplars can come out when the others are big enough to cope on their own)

[charlie]

If you get a chance then looking in at a garden in Devon created by Keith Wiley, I think he calls it Wildside, its not oriental but he has done extraordinary things sculpting the ground with an excavator , I see from his website (which is a bit rubbish) that they are not intending to open at all in 2015 but you may be able to blag a visit ! there are some images in a Telegraph article herehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/ga ... rsery.html

Most of the oriental gardens I have seen depend on the buildings and structures to carry it off, hope someone else may be able to help with Azaleas on alkaline, I can't grow anything like that here - they don't seem to like arsenic!

[kGarden]

Thanks Charlie, off out for the day shortly, I'll have a read of your link later on.

[Chad]

I agree with your introduction. Most Japanese gardens are western gardens with a few oriental features dropped in.

What they miss is the four hours of meditation done before, for example, raking the gravel.

Compton Acres works, I think, because it is an archetypal Edwardian garden in the 'oriental' manner.

Similarly the 'oriental garden' at Biddulph Grange.

The 'Japanese garden' at Pine Lodge is the least satisfactory of the gardens there. It is a pastiche without the soul. The pebbles for example are concreted in place!

On an alkali soil you are going to have a challenge on plant choices, but having worked in Japan you will be better placed than me to make selections.

Are you sure Inkharo rootstocks are alkali tolerant? I thought they pushed the pH range up to about 7 [neutral] rather than into alkali territory. I moved to Cornwall partly to escape the chalk soils I was brought up with; rather than have sulking calcifuge plants that didn't quite have the grace to die.

Strong design is your best inspiration. Having worked there you should have a feel for the 'soul' and be able to work out from that. Most of us work form the features down, which is exactly the wrong way to do it.

Chad.

[kGarden]

Are you sure Inkharo rootstocks are alkali tolerant? I thought they pushed the pH range up to about 7 [neutral] rather than into alkali territory.

I had a chat with www.rhododendron.co.uk and they said they grow fine on Salisbury plain and he implied they would grow on any soil. I ought to do a pH test here and see how alkaline it is - if I am banking up I could bring in some soil, of lower pH, but I would really like to use up the spoil we have here - otherwise I'll have to pay muck-away

having worked in Japan you will be better placed than me to make selections.

I had the option of working on a landscaping nursery ... perhaps I should have taken it, but I don't think I am artistic enough to have made the most of it so I'll stick to reading Jake Hobson's books! - I'll buy a lottery ticket in case I get the chance to have him trim the plants for me! My horticultural experience in Japan was limited to the tissue culture nursery I worked on :)

I did visit many gardens there over a 2 year period. Looking back I remember getting little enjoyment from my first gardens visit to Kyoto gardens, a few weeks after arriving in Japan, but sat in them for hours on a later visit before I left, so hopefully that experience will enable me to influence the design

[Chad]

The Telegraph is more enthusiastic about the Inkarho rootstock than the early RHS trials were;

Alexander P D (2008). SEESOIL, Journal of the South East England Soils Discussion Group, 17, 8-17.

ABSTRACT: The apparent preference of rhododendrons for acidic soils prevents many enthusiasts growing them under alkaline or even neutral soil conditions. Recently, a consortium of German plant breeders claim to have developed a lime tolerant rootstock (INKARHO®) which proffers hope to these enthusiasts. Using isolated beds, at RHS Garden Wisley, with soil pH chemically manipulated, two rhododendron cultivars were assessed on INKARHO and Cunningham's White (a naturally lime tolerant rootstock) rootstocks and their own natural root system. A SPAD 502 chlorophyll meter, whose output is a measure of leaf chlorophyll content, was used to assess plant health. Regular SPAD determinations were made over a period of five years and significant differences were detected after a long period of establishment. The results would suggest the INKARHO rootstock, for the two cultivars reported here, does not offer improved plant performance at pH 8 when compared to the other rootstocks.

Chad.

[kGarden]

I'd be very happy to treat the plants with some Sulphur / Chelated Iron, but that is all I am prepared to do ... an isolation bed, lined with plastic, carefully maintained etc. is too much work for me. So if my pH is borderline, others have had success, my applying something to help lower the pH somewhat, would be enough then I'm definitely game.

Don't suppose I can buy Rootstock and graft my own? The range of colours / varieties seems a bit limited - although perhaps if I buy direct from Germany I would get a larger range.

[Jungle Jas]

If you are looking for a good garden to visit you could do worse than visit Tatton Park near Manchester. If you look on the website they have a cracking Japanese garden and a an undercover fern garden. I can recommend a visit. ;)

[tony]

For me you need to start choosing some large boulders as, for me anyway, natural stone plays an integral part in evoking the feel of an oriental style garden particularly if you can source some moss. Plenty of Magnolias will tolerate an alkaline soil.